FIRST AND FOREMOST – I AM NOT AN AUTHOR, PAGINATOR, PUBLISHER, ETC – what ya see is what ya get!!! Anyone wanting to make sense of this, make a page, I'll be happy to hang it...

List of Korean war unaccounted for “8051” updated 2009:

http://scottsautorepair.net/uncle_jack_namsi/kwmia2009.pdf

A LITTLE HISTORY:

Eva Horner - Jacks mother is interred in Bellevue Cemetery in Daytona Beach, HORNER, Eva R., b. 1897 d. 1981. Never gave up hope and worked tirelessly to find out Uncle Jack's fate.

Norinne Horner (maiden name Scott), HORNER, Norinne V., b. Sept. 2, 1920 d. Apr. 18, 1992 US Navy. Never gave up hope, worked tirelessly and remained “true” to Uncle Jack till the end.

My collection of information on 2^nd Lt. John Joseph Horner “Uncle Jack”, shot down over Namsi airfield in North Korea, October 23, 1951.

B-29 307 Bomber Wing, 371 Bomber Squadron, Number 42-94045, shot down on bombing run over Namsi “Black Tuesday”, October 23, 1951 by Russian pilots. Specifically - Aleksandr P. Smorchkov.

THIS REASON FOR THIS EFFORT:

My only regret - I didn't get involved earlier. I have put this together for my Mother - Geraldine Anderson, to whom I owe all my domestic skills, religious upbringing and strength of character. A woman who truly was/is the fabric of our family and it's values (I love you Mom!). She and my Father – Robert “Bob” Anderson were very close to Jack and Norinne, in images and time spent together. It has been a 59 year mystery for her and our family.

MY CONTACT INFORMATION:

My email lwarranty@charter.net

WE START HERE:

No rhyme nor reason to my layout – mostly articles, quotes, images and diary entries as I found them in the order I found them... I searched records, weather, military reports, Russian Ace sites (converted them to English), Google, POW records, commander, ship and crew records and many other sources of information.

Summary: some facts and some SPECULATION ON MY PART!

They were attacked within seconds of Uncle Jack's plane dropping the bombs (image included).

The bombers got split up as their was confusion with regards to the flight path home, some went left while others went right. Basically breaking formation thereby opening up to easier attacks.

The attack lasted only 15 minutes.

John Wagenhalls writes: "I spent most of 1951 stationed at Kadena, assigned to the 370th squadron of the 307th Bomb Group. I returned to the US on the first day 0f 1952. During my tour of duty I flew approximately 50 bombing missions to Korea. Several missions were flown from Japan as we would leave Kadena during periods of typhoons.

"One of the missions that I flew was October 23, 1951, the so called 'Black Tuesday Mission . . . I was flying as Bombardier in the #2 position in C Flight and Peter Dempsey was the Aircraft Commander. . . From the battle damage we sustained it would be the most likely position in the formation. The bomb doors on the right side of the aircraft were shattered from cannon fire, while those on the opposite side suffered only minor damage. I was able to wire the pieces of the bomb bay doors in the up position sufficiently to allow us to fly the aircraft back to Kadena.

"Fortunately no one aboard the aircraft was injured in the melee. During and after the attack it seemed that the B29s were scattered, as not one of the flights remained intact. It was almost as if each airplane was on its own since at least one aircraft from each flight was destroyed almost immediately in the first attack. The firepower effectiveness was severely reduced as, basically, no formation still existed. I believe we were the first crew to reach Kadena from Korea that fateful day. If the MiGs would have to continued their attack they could have shot us all down."

They had fighter protection higher and lower, the MIG's came in between them at incredible speeds and many of them kept the fighters busy while the others “chopped” away at the bombers.

Some fighters were returning to base due to low fuel issues.

The bombers themselves while slow and vulnerable, were well armed and took out four or five of the MIGs that were attacking them.

They were “crack” Russian Pilots involved (they were silently getting into the war, afraid US public opinion would cause WW3) – some quotes farther into this document, they were reluctant to attack as we had been allies against the Germans.

The plane did crash in the water “Krumm went down in water (I hope they get picked up soon)” flight diary of one of the other B-29 crews, Fred Meiers.

They crashed on the mud flats, as indicated in the diary and initial crash reports, saying it crashed in the mud flats. The seas could reach 8-13 feet (at high tide) and a storm was present (see weather and rescue reports) – and cold – very cold, reports say Uncle Jack bailed and drowned in the water due to his parachute, regardless – the cold would have resulted in the same fate. One rescue member trying to retrieve his body, almost lost his own life from the rough and cold sea. Another report of a pilot in the water for 90 seconds, didn't have enough strength to get into a life raft due to the cold, waves and ingesting salt water.

Initial reports (months later) listed three men at the crash scene. Two outside and one under the tail section and the remaining i.e. pow's or mia's. Three were processed and recorded as POW's, listed as dying before the “Little/Big Switch” (prisoner exchange's) but bodies never returned. While South Korean guerrillas reported two weeks after the crash - finding the aircraft with three inside, three outside, one perhaps executed leaving three unaccounted for – Uncle Jack being one of those? Addition reports of SAR suggest Uncle Jack “spun in and drowned”, leaving two unaccounted for. The assumption then becomes, in the volley of gunfire that cut through these planes, how many men were killed during the initial aerial attack? If the plane were in the mud flats, tidal water would have deteriorated the crash scene daily?

The South Korean guerrilla's had no reason to lie.

“Guerrillas played a significant role in rescuing U.S. pilots shot down over North Korea. The 5th Air Force reported that of 93 pilots shot down between July 1950 and January 1952 who managed to evade capture, 29 were rescued by guerrillas.”

The North Korean's were actively “looking” for pilots and air crew, it is unlikely they would have assassinated anyone from the flight crew, however - local villagers, who didn't care about the Russians or anything else other than the anger from the bombs raining down on them, frequently shot on site ANY enemy. It was common to drop bombs from an aircraft under attack, no matter what was below!

Three crewman were listed as POW's, I cannot see any reason they wouldn't have included Uncle Jack IF he were captured.

The initial eyewitness reports also said #2 and 3 men out (over land), indicating engine #2 out and 3 men bailed – the POW's, it appears two others bailed, Uncle Jack and one other at/over the Yellow Sea, two bodies were seen by rescue crew but not recovered due to sea/storm conditions.

The initial report also said a “tight spiral” while others said it dropped out of formation but didn't appear to be out of total control. It broke off and was heading in the direction of the Yellow Sea. Pilots frequently headed towards the Yellow Sea, as search and rescue were in wait. The chance of capture was reduced considerably.

Several reports indicating a pilot, “spun in”, “got tangled in his chute and drowned”, different descriptions of the same event.

Looking at the escape plans listed below, one can surmise the challenges of the rear crew bailing vs the pilots. That Uncle Jack bailed over water while three others as soon as it was hit, implies he stayed with the aircraft and did his best to get it to the Yellow Sea.

Kimpo Air Force Base, South Korea, 23 Ocotber, 1951: Three B-29s of the 307th BW landed with heavy battle damage.

Photo on Left: Fogler's B-29, #44-61816, after landing at Kimpo with over 500 holes in the airplane.

Photo on Right: Reeter's B-29, showing cannon damage that killed the navigator & wounded others.

CRAZY INFORMATION:

The only thing constant is misinformation...

A REASON FOR MISINFORMATION:

“Capt Nutting is definitely 307th Bomb Wg. I've just renewed contact with Tom Campbell and have passed him an email on this one.”

The 1972 fire in St. Louis destroyed 75-80% of the Air Force and Army personnel records (201 files). That forces us to "re-engineer" records by seeking other sources - mostly unit and higher headquarters records that are stored in bulk at the National Archives at College Park and at the records centers and history offices. We're making progress...”

There is an incredible amount of confusion and contradiction within the government initial reports and those of witnesses and other members of the flight group. In reading, it appears the government had an immediate “boilerplate” answer, while most other information was fact gathering over time that leads one to believe it to be true. To the point of listing 13 men in the aircraft in one report KORWALD, 12 in another report Military Incident Report? I believe 12 were present per crew stations in B-29 documentation, however up to 13 later in the war? 9 B-29's in formation (I have read only 8 were present, one stayed behind due to mechanical failure). Other reports list 8, 9, 10 and or 11 B-29's that day. Taking South Korean Guerilla's accounts, all but one man is unaccounted for? Three POW's (processed and recorded), 6 KIA's at the site (as recorded by South Korean Guerrilla's), 2 bodies (recorded/seen by sea rescue) in the sea but not recovered due to storm/weather conditions. Regardless of crew count, one can surmise using the 12 man crew reports, only 1 would be unaccounted for, with reports pointing to Uncle Jack's parachuting and the period of time the crash site was open to the elements and sea, the missing crew member while unfortunate, does not point to Uncle Jack.

Latest information regarding his fate: ( sub-note: at the end of this page info on the weather and one of the recovery efforts – it's unlikely he could have survived in the water for very long at all, three to five minutes. Other pilots who landed in the water were so weakened by the cold, could not get into life rafts after only 90 seconds in the water...)

11, 12 or 13 CREW?:

The crew of the B-29 was typically eleven, comprising pilot, co-pilot, bombardier, navigator, flight engineer, radio operator, radar operator, central fire control gunner, left side gunner, right side gunner and tail gunner. The first six crewmen were housed in the forward pressurized cabin. The next four were housed in the rear pressurized cabin. The tail gunner was in a separate pressurized compartment in the tail. Later in the war, the crew size was occasionally increased to 13 with the addition of two radar/radio operators to man the radar and electronic countermeasures equipment.

The value of a B-29, and its 11 or 12 man crew, with their repetitive offensive capability, was far greater than the possible reward of a single defensive Mig-15 with what we thought to be a relatively inexperienced North Korean or Chinese Pilot.

LATEST INFORMATION FROM DIARIES AND REPORTS:

REPORT FROM RESCUE VESSEL THAT DAY:

MONTHLY REPORT TO HQ FROM SEARCH AND RESCUE TEAM:

A GREAT RESOURCE:

http://www.heritagebooks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HBI&Product_Code=M4619&Category_Code=

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Tuesday-Over-Namsi-History/dp/0788446193

IMAGE SECONDS BEFORE ATTACK OF UNCLE JACK'S PLANE:

Uncle Jack's plane just before it got hit at bombs away, taken from lead B-29 seconds before Mig attack. On the right the only B-29 to return to base (others returned to bases elsewhere, three B-29's were went down out of eight)...

QUOTE FROM CPL MILLER – ANOTHER B-29 IN THE GROUP DURING THE INITIAL ATTACK:

Cpl. Rolland Miller, Fogs left gunner, watched as the puffs of deadly flak faded. He aimed his camera at Krumms B-29 to catch the moment of bombs away. As the shutter snapped, he heard the dreaded word, MiGs!

THE GUY WHO SHOT HIM DOWN (ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT):

Shot down by Lt. Col. Aleksandr P. Smorchkov.

Russian MiG-15 Aces in Korea, from left to right: Aleksandr P. Smorchkov (8 kills), Nikolai Ivanovich Ivanov (6), Semen Alexeievich Fedorets (8), Yevgeni G. Pepelyayev (19) and Sergei Makarovich Kramarenko (13).

QUOTE FROM MISC SOURCES ABOUT “MIG ALLEY” and “NAMSI RAID”:

On Oct. 23, 1951, the largest single air battle of the Korean War was fought over Namsi in "MiG Alley." That fateful 15-minute engagement changed the way the U.S. conducted bombing raids for the remainder of the war. It also revealed the extent of Soviet involvement in aerial combat over the Yalu River.

Airmen had been playing poker in a typhoon-battered tin hut when they received news that a sister unit was returning from Namsi. Scuttlebutt claimed it ran into big trouble. It wasn't known how much until men arrived on the flight line and saw the lone returning bomber silhouetted against a peaceful Pacific sky. One B-29 out of nine--with a hole in the tail section large enough for a man to crawl through--had come back to base.

QUOTES FROM RUSSIAN PILOTS:

What did the Soviet veterans think about their American adversaries? In general terms, they felt sadness for being fighting against their old Allies against Hitler, and they respected very much their skills in combat. But let us read the Russian ace Aleksandr Pavlovich Smorchkov's own words :

"Our attitude towards the American pilots was complicated. During the Second World War, we had been allies against Hitler. Therefore, in Korea, we did not view the Americans as enemies, but only as opponents. Our motto in the air was 'Competition - with whomever.' ... My opinions about the relative abilities of Soviet and American aircraft and pilots were as follows: I thought the American pilots were very good. This opinion was shared by other Soviet pilots including my friends Vladimir Voistinnych and Piotr Chourkin."

The respect that those men felt for our brave countrymen should be reciprocal, and a way to show respect for those honourable Russian airmen is to account their deeds, which also deserve recognition. What follow is a short biography of some of those MiG-15 pilots who bravely fought against our countrymen 50 years ago, in a long and bitter war that should have never happened.

NOTE THE DIFFERENCES THE RUSSIAN DEPICT: 200 US vs 44 MIGS

"The Black Tuesday". 30th October 1951. 21 B29 escorted by about 200 F86 and F84, tried to attack Namsi airfield. They were intercepted by 44 MiGs, which shot down 12 B29 and 4 F84. 1 MiG-15 was shot down by Sabres. The rest of SuperFortresses were damaged, but managed to escape. According the American sources, were lost 8 bombers.

MISC REPORTS:

Last sighting of Uncle Jack's B-29 was a "tight spiral" heading towards the ground - three men bailed when the plane was first hit - those men were sent to POW camps according to N. Korean documentation, they were said to have died in the camps but the bodies were never returned.

WHEN HIS STATUS WENT TO (sort of KIA):

After the first/second "Little Switch / Big Switch" prisoner and records exchange, Uncle Jack was listed as MIA since he was not in any of the documents, but it was implied he i.e. didn't survive the bail out, was shot by villagers or sent to Russia. Prisoners sent to Russia were usually interrogated and then sent to labor camps where they would most certainly have died. No prisoners were exchanged between Russia and the US as a result of them trying to hide their involvement.

MIG CAMERA VIEW ATTACKING B-29 FORMATION:

First photo is shows i.e. parachutes or flack – possibly “3 men out”?

GENERAL REPORTS:

Aerial combat increased in intensity throughout the fall of 1951, peaking in the biggest air battle of the Korean War on Oct. 23. "Black Tuesday," as it became known, was the turning point in the air war. The U.S. bomber armada was attacking the airfields at Samchan, Taechon, Uiju and Namsi.

Over Namsi, it was a "holocaust," wrote Robert F. Futrell in The U.S. Air Force in Korea.

Eight B-29s of the 307th Bomb Group escorted by 55 F-84Es of the 49th and 136th Fighter-Bomber Groups plus 34 F-86Es from the 4th FIG flew into a hornet’s nest. About 100 MiG-15s engaged the escort while 50 others hit the bombers. Futrell labeled the 20-minute engagement "one of the most savage and bloody air battles of the Korean War."

When the shooting was over, three bombers were lost, four crash-landed in South Korea and three had to be scrapped upon reaching Okinawa. An F-84 was lost, too. Four MiGs went down—three of them reportedly to B-29 gunners. The war’s last daylight bomber raid was conducted five days later.

B-29 crew casualties for the week, most sustained over Namsi, totaled 67—55 KIA/MIA and 12 WIA. Among the dead was Capt. Thomas L. Shields who sacrificed his life in keeping his crippled bomber flying until his fellow crew members had time to bail out.

Although forced out of MiG Alley, FEAF Bomber Command's B-29s had continued daylight attacks on other North Korean targets. The command also began experimenting with night attacks using Shoran (short range navigation) equipment. For the most part during this time, the MiGs had left the bombers alone. This changed when the B-29s began attacking the Namsi-Taechon-Saamcham fields. The night attacks were progressing too slowly, and daylight attacks were resumed on the airfields. The first raids elicited little response from the enemy, but it was only a matter of time before the Communists would put up a defense. It came on October 23.

That morning FEAF sent nine Superfortresses (one later aborted the mission) against the Namsi field. Providing close escort for the bombers were 55 F-84s of the 49th and 136th FBWs. Another 34 F-86s were positioned higher to catch any enemy planes before they got too close to the B-29s. All of this escort had little effect. Approximately 100 MiGs engaged the Sabres near Namsi, effectively preventing them from going to the aid of the bombers. The Americans knocked down two enemy planes, but as they and the MiGs tangled, another 50 MiGs went after the B-29s. Whether these 50 planes were actually part of the group battling the Sabres or were additional aircraft is unknown.

Despite their heroic efforts to protect the B-29s, it was evident that the straight-wing Thunderjets were incapable of keeping up with the faster and more maneuverable MiG-15s. Many of the enemy jets broke through the escorts to pummel the bombers. Three of the bombers went down under the onslaught, and four of the five remaining planes were so badly damaged that they had to make emergency landings in Korea and Japan. An F-84 was also shot down. A Thunderjet pilot claimed one MiG, and the bomber gunners claimed another three.

The most successful Soviet pilots that day were "Lieutenant Colonel Aleksandr P. Smorchkov" and 1st Lieutenant Dmitriy A. Samoylov. The former shot down a Superfortress on each of 22, 23 and 24 October. [7] Samoylov added two F-86As onto his scoreboard on 24 October 1951

CONFLICTING REPORT VS GOVERNMENT REPORT:

UNCLE JACKS PLANE (foreground) BEING SERVICED:

MIA / POW REPORTS:

VII. STATISTICS

The testimony revealed that more than 1,800 cases involving many thousands of victims of Communist war atrocities have been opened by the War Crimes Division in Korea. Lt. Col. Jack R. Todd, Chief of the War Crimes Division, testified the most accurate estimate of American troops who died as a result of war crimes was 5,639 as of November 1953. He stated this figure was conservative and might increase after investigations are completed.

This figure is appalling in view of the evidence that the grand total of all Americans repatriated was only 3,508. This indicates that approximately two-thirds of all American prisoners of war died due to war crimes.

Furthermore, the above American fatalities figure does not represent the total number of American victims of atrocities because many victims survived and were either repatriated or in some other manner found their way back to the United Nations lines. The conservative estimate of probable American victims as of June 1953, was 6,113, which figure is expected to increase.

Evidence further showed that the total number of reported civilian victims reaches the number 35,459 persons, with a probable verifiable estimate of 17,354; and that the total number of reported victims among United Nations forces (including United States troops) was 20,785 with a probable verifiable estimate of 11,622.

VIII. FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS

Upon hearing the testimony of all witnesses and studying the documentary evidence submitted, the subcommittee advises:

The North Korean and Chinese Communist armies were guilty of the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed against American personnel during the conflict in Korea from June 25, 1950, until July 27, 1953:

Murder;

Attempted murder;

Malicious and aggravated assaults;

Various acts of torture, i.e., perforating flesh of prisoners with heated bamboo spears, burning prisoners with lighted cigarettes and inserting a can opener into a prisoner's open wound's;

Starvation;

Deliberate policy of fostering starvation;

Experimental medical operations;

Coerced Communist indoctrination;

Bayonetting;

The Communist government in China is equally responsible and guilty as the Communist government in Korea for war atrocities committed against Americans.

Virtually every provision of the Geneva Convention governing the treatment of war prisoners was purposely violated or ignored by the North Korean and Chinese forces.

More than 5,000 American prisoners of war died because of communist war atrocities and more than a thousand who survived were victims of war crimes.

Several thousand American soldiers who have not been repatriated were victims of war crimes, died in action, or are presently confined behind the Iron Curtain.

Communist forces violated the "Little Switch" agreement by failing to repatriate the sick and wounded prisoners in accordance with the Panmunjom truce.The Communists in Korea, by false propaganda, have attempted to inaccurately portray the treatment accorded by them to American prisoners of war.

MEIER'S DIARY ENTRY THAT DAY:

CRASH REPORT:

Aircraft 045, 371st Bomb Squadron

Aircraft Commander: Capt. Robert M. Krumm

Disposition: Shot down by MiG-15s 23 October 1951. Crash landed on mud flats of Korea Bay.

Crew: 12 Men

GALLANT JAMES ALVIN AF15295553 USAF Cpl E4 MIA

HAYS MELVIN BLAINE AF39192109 USAF A1C E3 MIA

HORNER JOHN JOSEPH AO-1911849 USAF 1Lt O2 MIA

HUDSON LAURENCE HAROLD AO-2092806 USAF 1Lt O2 MIA

JOHNSON GERALD EMMETT AF13337205 USAF A1C E3 POW

JOHNSON JOHNNY MENLO AF18012759 USAF MSgt E7 POW

KRUMM ROBERT MITCHELL AO-804464 USAF Capt O3 MIA

MARSHALL ISREAL JR AF14353049 USAF A2C E2 KIA

MCADOO ERNEST ROBERT AF13337425 USAF Sgt E5 MIA

NUTTING JOHN MAINARD AO-685703 USAF Capt O3 KIA

OSBORNE JESS ALEX JR AF13351603 USAF A1C E3 POW

POYNOR CON FOLY AO-725476 USAF 1Lt O2 MIA

Narrative: According to the navigator on Capt Fogler's aircraft diary, “@ 0944 just before bombs away the Migs came in and on first pass (at bombs away) they knocked out #2 & 3 men out…” I believe the “three men out” the navigator refers to are A1C Gerald E. Johnson, Flight Engineer Johnny M. Johnson and A1C Jesse A. Osborne. They were the only three crewmen of Krumm’s B-29 listed as POWs. That they became POWs implies that they parachuted over land shortly after bombs away, and were held with other prisoners who later identified them by name during debriefs of fellow POWs after the prisoner exchanges of Little Switch and Big Switch. They apparently died in prison camp, as their bodies were not returned. If we assume Keller’s email is accurate, then I believe aircraft 045 crashed in the mud flats of Korea Bay. Three bodies were found at the crash site.

POW/MIA/KIA records indicate Capt. John M. Nutting, A2C Isreal Marshall, Jr., from Krumm’s aircraft were declared KIA on 10 December 1951. This implies that their bodies were found less than two months after the raid—on the mud flats of Korea Bay as Keller suggests? The status of all other MIAs from the Namsi mission were not changed to KIA until December 1953 and February 1954—over two years later and after the prisoner exchanges of Little Switch and Big Switch. The third body found on the mud flats cannot be unidentified from records that I have. What of the remaining seven

MIAs? That they were not found with the wreckage of 045 implies that they bailed out. That the wreckage was found on mud flats and that no bodies of this crew were recovered from the water, implies that these crew members bailed out over land and captured. That no record of them occurs in returning POW debriefs implies that if they survived bail out, they did not survive long enough to make it to a POW camp. If we continue the trail of logic, one could conclude that North Koreans executed them shortly after capture. Keller’s email provides supporting evidence for this conclusion.

RESUCE REPORTS:

He continued, "During my 10 months at K-8 our GCA Operators had several of what they called "Saves". These were Aircraft landings that could not have been made without GCA assistance. These were during bad weather and due to an emergency, the Aircraft could not make it to an alternate base. As I remember our Operators had one or two of these a month." Though not much is written about these, the pilots and crews are eternally grateful, especially during the winter months. Ditching in the Korean waters of the Yellow Sea in winter was tantamount to suicide as the chances of survival in the frigid waters was slim.

MISC REPORT/INQUIRY FROM FAMILY:

At 06:58 PM 5/13/01 -0400, you wrote:

Does anyone have knowledge of special operations units (Korean or U.N) who may have been involved in the rescuing or recovery of crewman shot down during the air mission over Namsi Airfield on 23 October 1951?

Nothing in my files about the B-29 that crashed on the mud flats but I do have the E&E debrief of the pilot for one of the downed B-29's but no names since the report is redacted. He bailed out and saw three other chutes as he descended. He was picked up by a whaleboat from the HMS Murchinson. He does not mention anything about the others but assume they also were picked up since he mentions massive Search & Rescue effort involving SA-16s, helos, F-84s, F-51s and Sea Furies as well as ships. His B-29 crashed into the sea.

The pilot did mention landing close to an unidentified island. Since all the offshore islands were in our hands at that time, and given the Search & Rescue effort, partisans probably were the ones who recovered the bodies. The recovery area was in either Donkey 10 or Donkey 11 AO.

RESCUE INFORMATION:

Two Sea Furys were detailed to assist HMAS Murchison negotiate shallow water hazards which threatened her safety on 24 October. The aircraft carried out a mine search ahead of the frigate. On October 23 our aircraft had taken part in the search for a ditched B29 bomber (US) whose crew were in the sea well north of Chinnampo. A specially equipped air-sea rescue flying boat (nicknamed "Dumbo") picked up four of the crew while being covered by aircraft from HMAS Sydney. Later our aircraft sighted a further survivor flashing his signal mirror from a small dinghy. HMAS Murchison's sea-boat rescued the USAF pilot after he had transferred to a larger dinghy dropped within 90 feet of the downed airman by one of our Fireflys. While searching for the bomber crew, a suspected mine was strafed by one of our aircraft.

HMAS Sydney participated in rescue efforts:

Another operation was on October 23rd when 57 sorties were flown with 13 of these being associated with the rescue of a USAF Boeing B-29 crew which was down in the sea north of Chinnampoo. A Sea Fury located one of the crew who was picked up by an American rescue amphibian, codenamed 'Dumbo'

HMAS Murchison that participated in rescue efforts:

HMAS Murchison (K442/F442) was a Modified River (or Bay class frigate of the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). The ship was laid down in 1943, but not commissioned until after the end of World War II. Murchison fought in the Korean War, was decommissioned in 1956, and sold for scrap in 1961.

FORMATIONS AND FLIGHT PATH:

FORMATIONS:

ATTACK PHOTO'S:

A B-29 from the 307th battle wing, caught on Lt Col Smorchkov's Mig-15 camera on October 23, 1951 - "Black Tuesday", Namsi raid. My interpretation of the events are Smorchkov was the first in line of four or five Mig's to attack. He was the first to fire upon Uncle Jack's and was "credited" for the shoot down. However other accounts indicate other Russian pilots of the day also hit the plane.

ANOTHER B-29 REPORTS FROM THAT DAY:

Korea that fateful day. If the MiGs would have to continued their attack they could have shot us all down."

MISC INFO:

The MiG-15s were assumed to be manned by the Chinese. The pilots were actually members of the 64th Fighter Aviation Group (44 MiGs from the 303rd and 324th Air divisions), a crack unit from the Soviet Union.

Three B-29s went down and three more were damaged beyond repair. All but one received heavy battle damage.

For the 307th crews, the mission began with a 7 p.m. briefing the night before. Lt. Nick Kourafas, lead bombardier, had worked all afternoon on computations and planning. Namsi was a scant 30 miles east of Antung and its politically protected air bases in Manchuria. They would be heading into the heart of MiG Alley.

As a veteran of 45 missions, Kourafas knew what that could mean. He wrote in his notes, I hope Im wrong, but I think the MiGs will be in the area.

Wake up was at 1 a.m., take off at 4 a.m. Because of the forecast cloud cover, they would use Shoran to strike the target. That procedure required flying an electronically generated arc. It also precluded massing the B-29s firepower into a single, tight formation and would subject the bombers to defensive blind spotsa factor that would prove disastrous.

Kourafas navigator, Lt. Fred Meier, called their crew aircraft commander, Capt. Clarence Fogler, the lucky one. Fog had survived the brutal low-level Ploesti raids of WWII. Hed also brought his crew home from the deadly April 1951 mission against the bridges at Sinuiju. With luck, he would also bring them home from Namsi.

The formation assembled over Cheju-do Island before proceeding north. In Able Flight, Capt. James Lewis flew Foglers right wing, while Capt. Robert Krumm held the position on the left. Behind them, Capt. James Foulks headed up Baker Flight with Lt. William Reeter and Maj. William Griner on his wings.

Capt. Thomas Shields led Charlie Flight. Nearing Taechon they came under heavy and accurate AAA ground fire. Reeter and Shields took direct hits.

Enemy fighters had overflown the F-86s and barreled right through the outclassed F-84s. With 248 aircraft swirling in the sky above Namsi, the largest single air battle of the Korean War had broken out over MiG Alley near the Yalu River.

Foulks was hit on the first pass. His left wing burning, and losing power, he fell out of formation and bailed out with his crew. More MiGs attacked head on. Krumm was taken out next.

Meier would record four nose, four pursuit and 37 tail attacks. Two MiGs buzzed by his window at near supersonic speeds with F-84s on their tails.

Their central fire controller, Staff Sgt. Fred Spivey, knocked down a MiG. Another pulled up and to the left. Kourafas got off 100 rounds, which appeared to find their mark as the jet shuddered and seemed to hang in the air not 100 yards away.

Miller spotted a MiG about a half mile out, closing rapidly from eight oclock. Puffs of smoke were coming from the nose cannons as Miller framed him in his gunsight and fired. Pieces of metal peeled off the fighters wing as he rolled and passed under the tail.

With Foulks shot down, Baker Flight was in disarray. Reeter and Griner had wounded and dying aboard. A 37mm cannon shell had blown up inside Reeters plane. A shell gutted Griners rear fuselage. A separate group of MiGs had finished off Shields, who was awarded the Silver Star (posthumously) for his efforts to save his crew.

The actual battle lasted 15 minutes.

Fogler, Reeter and Griner turned for the nearest friendly landing strip, Kimpo Air Base near Seoul, South Korea.

Observers near the Kimpo runway watched the three shot up B-29s limp in with wounded aboard. Griner landed with an engine burning and his left main tires shot out. He bounced, and another tire exploded as he swerved to the left and went into a sideways skidin a line directly aimed at the scattering spectators and came to rest in a thunderous cloud of dust.

Paul Dickerson was a gunner on one of the planes that hit the runway hard. None of us bailed out; we crash-landed at K-14 [Kimpo], he recalled. It made the front page of Stars & Stripes.

Foglers crew landed safely, parked their plane and surveyed the damage. Flak had riddled the bomb bay doors and tail section. They counted more than 500 holes. There was an unexploded shell in a fuel tank. Fogs luck had held.

Minutes after the engagement, Lt. Duke Duquette flew his RF-80 Shooting Star over Namsi on a bomb damage assessment run. He recalls the sky as suddenly and eerily vacant.

Meiers final diary entry for Oct. 23 reads, I never want to go there again.

Casualties related to Namsi28 KIA and 24 WIAwere the largest for any single U.S. Air Force action of the war.

The lethal toll was due to Russian participation. The Soviet attack had succeeded beyond all expectations, wrote John R. Bruning in Crimson Sky. Twenty-two pairs of MiGs had torn through the high and close escort F-84s and slaughtered the B-29s.

On 18 October, the B-29s commenced daylight attacks against the airfields and met determined MiG opposition. The B-29s were covered by F-84s and F-86s, but no amount of cover could prevent the Red interceptors from getting through. The MiGs shot down a B-29 on 22 October, and the disaster was capped when three B-29s were downed on 23 October and five received major damage. The old Superfortresses could no longer work against Communist jets in daytime skies. At this time, some B-29s had been equipped for SHORAN* bombing so they could lead formations in adverse weather. This capability enabled the B-29s to keep flying against MiG Alley airfields and bridges during nighttime. There was some difficulty with mapping errors that had to be corrected, but the bombers kept the airfields under attack.

SEARCH AND RESCUE STUFF:

In June, the Chinese Communists had over 300 MIG-15s concentrated on airfields north of the Yalu River, a formidable force against which the Americans had only 44 F86A Sabre Jets. It was a considerable source of annoyance and frustration to the United Nations pilots that they were not permitted to cross the Yalu River to strike at enemy bases. Nevertheless, despite the fact they were outnumbered, the Sabres managed to hold their own. It was touch and go in October when the MIGs succeeded for the first time in seriously interfering with the bombing raids on North targets and the situation only eased in January 1952 with the arrival of a second Sabre Wing - the 51st.

On 25 October, Lieutenant Colin Wheatly, a Sea Fury pilot from 808 Squadron, had his aircraft seriously damaged by flak off Chinnampo and ditched on his way back to the carrier. He was unhurt and after inflating his dinghy, was rescued by a patrolling Dumbo. Off Korea, the American air-sea rescue service of helicopters, sea-planes and rescue boats was very efficient. Any of the aircrew who ditched into the sea had a good chance of being rescued in the warmer months, provided they had a dinghy. However, in the freezing winter months a ditched flier could meet his end in about 3 minutes.

The worst of all were the 32 feet high tides which left nothing but mud flats at low tide, forcing a 12-hour wait for a second landing.

WEATHER:

RUSSIAN POW FILES:

Russian. TFR 138-86: TFR 138 is a 300 plus page document consisting of operational summaries from the Soviet 64th Fighter Aviation Corps. This unit, based in North Korea, was responsible for many of our shoot downs. TFR 138-86 is a report from 23 October 1951. This report mentions the shoot down of two B-29s on that day. The report states that both aircraft crashed and the crew of one perished. Unfortunately, no further details are given as to the disposition of the crew on the other aircraft or remains of the perished crew.

In one battle, on 23 October over Namsi airport NK, 100 MIGs engaged 34 Sabres from all sides. Meanwhile, 50 more MIGs circled the bombers and tried to drive off the F-84's, unsuccessfully. Only one flight of MIGs broke through to the 8 B-29'. Just as the bombers began their runs, more MIGs bored in to attack. The lead bomber was raked and on fire, but the pilot, Capt. Thomas Shields, held on through bomb release.

The other seven crews were equally persistent to their duty while under severe attack. In the confusion, there was little chance of protection for them. One flight of MIGs came straight up under the bombers attacking at will. Captain Shields, miraculously, flew his bomber and its crew, back to the coast, where all but the captain were able to bail out. Captain Shields stuck with his mortally wounded airplane and sacrificed himself to save his crew.

The other two flights each lost another bomber and their entire crews, in that battle, which, from start to finish, lasted less than 15 minutes. Of the remaining four surviving bombers, four returned with great damage to airplanes and crewmen, many dead or critically injured. As for the enemy, F-86's got two, an F-84 downed another one, and B-29 gunners three. But this was a great victory at a low price to the Chinese Air Force. The following day the B-29's were persistently pursued after their attack, unusually far south. One crew of eight safely bailed out over Wonsan.

PLANES LOST AND CREW STATUS FROM THAT DAY:

KORWALDS Loss Incident Summary

Date of Loss:	511023
Tail Number:	44-70151
Aircraft Type:	B-29A
Wing or Group:	307th Bmb Wg
Squadron:	371st Bmb Sq
Circumstances of Loss:	Damaged by MiGs near Namsi Airfield, crew bailed out in Chinnampo/Inchon area (Yellow Sea), 3rd ARSq SA-16 Dumbos participated in SAR effort, approx 233 SAR missions flown, surface vessels impeded by rough seas

Crewmembers Associated With This Loss
Name (Last, First Middle)	Rank	Service	Status	Comments
DOUGHERTY, Joseph S.	SSGT	USAF	MIA
GOLDBECK, Emil B.	CAPT	USAF	RSC	3rd ARRSq SA-16 rescue E of Sinmi-do
GROSS, William A.	SGT	USAF	RSC	3rd ARRSq SA-16 rescue E of Sinmi-do
HAMBLIN, Robert W.	TSGT	USAF	MIA
O'NEAL, Julius E.	LTCOL	USAF	MIA
PENNINGER, Roger W.	1LT	USAF	MIA
SHIELDS, Thomas L.	CAPT	USAF	MIA
SMITH, Ted W.	CAPT	USAF	RSC	3rd ARRSq SA-16 rescue E of Sinmi-do
STAINBROOK, JR., Paul E.	CPL	USAF	WIA	3rd ARRSq SA-16 rescue E of Sinmi-do
VRETIS, James G.	1LT	USAF	KIA
WAHLGREN, Edward C.	1LT	USAF	MIA
WEBB, Edward A.	CPL	USAF	MIA
WEST, Carl E.	CPL	USAF	MIA

KORWALD Loss Incident Summary

Date of Loss:	511023
Tail Number:	44-61940
Aircraft Type:	B-29A
Wing or Group:	307th Bmb Wg
Squadron:	372nd Bmb Sq
Circumstances of Loss:	Damaged by MiGs near Namsi airfield, crashed 6 mi off coast of Chinnampo, 3rd ARSq SA-16 Dumbos participated in SAR effort, a total of approx 233 SAR missions flown, surface vessels impeded by rough seas

Crewmembers Associated With This Loss
Name (Last, First Middle)	Rank	Service	Status	Comments
BEISSNER, JR., Fred L.	1LT	USAF	RSC	Rescued by the Aus. Destroyer Murchison NW of Chinnampo
BLACK, Wayne F.	1LT	USAF	MIA
BOTTER, William J.	SSGT	USAF	POW
COFFEY, Arthur G.	SGT	USAF	RCV	Remains recovered by crash boat near Taehwa-do
COGSWELL, Robert W.	CAPT	USAF	MIA	(Hq & Hq Squadron)
FOULKS, JR., James A.	CAPT	USAF	KIA
FUEHRER, Alois A.	SGT	USAF	MIA
JONES, James H.	SGT	USAF	RMC	RMC Big Switch
KISSER, Kenneth E.	SSGT	USAF	RMC	RMC Big Switch
MACCLEAN, Gerald C.	LTCOL	USAF	RMC	RMC Big Switch
MOORADIAN, Ara NMI	1LT	USAF	MIA
STRINE, John T.	SSGT	USAF	RMC	RMC Big Switch
WENTWORTH, JR., Lloyd G.	1LT	USAF	RMC	RMC Big Switch

Date of Loss:	511023
Tail Number:	42-94045
Aircraft Type:	B-29A
Wing or Group:	307th Bmb Wg
Squadron:	371st Bmb Sq
Circumstances of Loss:	Downed by MiGs near Namsi airfield at 0920L, last seen in a tight spiral, 3rd ARSq SA-16 Dumbos participated in SAR effort, a total of approx 233 SAR missions flown, surface vessels impeded by rough seas

Crewmembers Associated With This Loss
Name (Last, First Middle)	Rank	Service	Status	Comments
GALLANT, James A.	A2C	USAF	MIA
HAYS, Melvin B.	A3C	USAF	MIA
HORNER, John J.	2LT	USAF	MIA
HUDSON, Laurence H.	2LT	USAF	MIA
JOHNSON, Gerald E.	PFC	USAF	POW
JOHNSON, Johnny M.	TSGT	USAF	POW
KRUMM, Robert M.	CAPT	USAF	MIA
MARSHALL, JR., Isreal NMI	A3C	USAF	KIA
MCADOO, Ernest R.	A1C	USAF	MIA
NEWSWANGER, Quentin L.	TSGT	USAF	KIA
NUTTING, John M.	CAPT	USAF	KIA
OSBORNE, JR., Jess A.	PFC	USAF	POW
POYNOR, Con F	1LT	USAF	MIA

Assumption based on combining multiple sources rather than one report.

12 men on the flight, while loss reports indicate 13 on planes and B-29 specs indicate an 11 man crew???

3 bailed over land (documented from lead b-29) – identified as POW's. They died in POW camps and no bodies were returned, common as mass graves are listed in many places.

Government records initially said they were all MIA (except the crew found at the scene) until a few months later, 3 were listed as KIA, which means the bodies were found within two months of the crash, changing the status.

South Korean guerilla's that were on the scene two weeks after the crash reported 6 bodies, 3 inside, 3 outside and 1 appeared to be assassinated. This implies by the time the Government got to the site, the bodies that could - most likely floated away by the time they recorded their information.

Here it gets complicated. IF the SK Guerilla's found 3 inside, 3 outside and 1 assassinated, that implies 7 men KIA, 3 POW's and 2 missing. Or 6 KIA, 3 POW and 3 missing – regardless, information indicating Uncle Jack fate is clearer than the rest. Or if it were a crew of 11 as the B-29's were equipped to support, then 6 KIA per initial South Korean reports, 3 POW's recorded/processed by North Korea, 2 bodies found in the water (2 bodies were recorded/seen by rescue teams but not recovered due to storm/weather conditions) – all were accounted for???

Conflicting reports from both Government AND South Korea over a few weeks period, show the deterioration of the crash site in that small period of time. Whether 2 or 3 were listed as missing – as explained in the next paragraph, would change the dynamics considerably. If 2 were missing, the rescue logs of that day imply that ALL were found. If 3 were missing, then only 1 is unaccounted for and most likely lost in the first two weeks before the South Korean's came upon the site. As the site remained in constant change, the severity / loss of bodies between the time the South Korean's reported vs the Government, gives clear indication – time was of the essence. Two weeks passed before the first South Korean report and possibly a month, two or more - before the second “Official” report. The activity in the surf and tides, could/would account for the discrepancy.

Regardless, as reports, diary and logs indicate, Uncle Jack was believed to have bailed out, got tangled in his chute and drowned. Further evidence of this is shown in one rescue log whereby the pilot “spun in” and drowned. Another states a crew member tried to recover a body and almost drowned himself in the rough and cold sea's, gathered information determined “probably Horner”. During this rescue, there were two bodies NOT recovered, the drowned pilot and another that died of exposure having never made it to a life raft after one hour and fifteen minutes of exposure. Again pointing to the adverse conditions, Uncle Jack wouldn't have had a chance in the water, regardless of his condition, as three to five minutes exposure would have been deadly (indicated in rescue logs and weather reports for the day).

I believe it to be true, Uncle Jack i.e. drowned, died upon impact from the chute collapsing as the cords spiraled, or from exposure.

If Uncle Jack were taken prisoner, he would have been included with the 3 POW records, no reason to exclude 1?

CRASH IMAGE OF THE 045 THANKS (thank you) TO EARL MCGILL “MAC”!

(8-141-Wreckage-42-94045.jpg)

Reported crash scene of the 42-94045 - B29 shot down Korea October 23, 1951 over North Korea

De-classified documents pertaining to 045 crew – THANKS TO JOHN ZIMMERLEE

http://scottsautorepair.net/uncle_jack_namsi/AF_Addtns_Mster_Lst_00.pdf

http://scottsautorepair.net/uncle_jack_namsi/AFAddtns_Mster_Lst_H_J.pdf

Video taken 1951 Korean War from B-29 in action...

http://scottsautorepair.net/uncle_jack_namsi/1951_b29_korean_video.flv

Perspectives On Black Tuesday Over Namsi in the words of Paul

Dickerson, Rt. Gunner, and Dewell Turner, Lt Gunner on Griner's B-29

Paul: "We took the shell in no. 3 main (fuel tank) and fuel started pouring out over the wing & down the right side over my blister. When the fuel went over the blister it made the blister milky . . . I could not see out of it anymore . . . I then went off interphone and took care of Lt. Thorton who took shrapnel in his arm. On landing we went off the left side of the runway. Major Griner gave the crew the option to bail out. None did.

[Paul told me on the phone that Maj. Griner was substituting for their regular Aircraft Commander]

Our C.F.C. (central fire controller), S/Sgt Slagowski got a MiG, confirmed by 4th F.I.W. Pilots at debriefing at K-14. 4th F.I.W. Intel debrief said the MiG pilots were Russian."

Dewell: I flew that mission as a gunner with Major Griner's crew. I was on TDY to the 307^th. I had no crew assignment at that time and flew several missions as a substitute for crew members who were unable to fly. I was assigned this mission in the early morning of the day of the mission. The CQ woke me about 2:30 a. m. and told me I was going. I did not get any pre-flight briefing and did not help with the pre-flight except for the very last minute justbefore boarding. The short notice was probably good for me because I had little time to contemplate the gravity of that mission. As I recall, Major Griner and the CFC interviewed me a bit before take off and assigned me the left seat.

Paul Dickerson's account matches my recollection. I saw the tires blow outupon our landing when Major Griner locked the brakes to stop us. I also recall that a bomb hung up and had to bemanually jettisoned before we landed. I think the bombadier and CFC did that chore. I saw theMIG go down after the CFC hit it. I remember the debriefers at Kimpo really pressed me about what I saw. Major Griner gave us the option of bailing out, but all the regular crew wanted to stay with the plane, probably because the radar operator was wounded and could not jump and they did want to leave him. I wasn't about to jump alone. Everyone had great confidence in Major Griner and he did a fantastic job getting us down safely. The first thing the gunners did after landing was to clear the guns. When we looked for the lower forward turret cover to remount it after clearing the guns, we could never find it. No telling what happened to it. Someone probably thought it would never be needed again. They were right.

FROM MY NEW FRIEND – EARL MCGILL, American, Veteran, Author, Gentleman – from start to finish!

Scott, I'm really busy writing so I'll try to be brief:

First, nothing is certain. Three planes went down in flames, all within a few minutes of each other. Eyewitnesses (crew members who parachuted) confirm that one (#151) exploded and sent down debris that landed in the sea. Another (#940) most certainly crashed either in water or the mud flats. That leaves only #045. Therefore it is assumed that the crash on the mountain photo was #045 — IF the date of the crash is, in fact, accurate. All we know almost for certain is that the photo shows a B-29 crash site. Nearly all of the sources of information and/or photos are dead so there is no way to confirm anything. I should also point out that much of the information was based on questionable sources, speculation and guesswork. I've been in three wars, Korea, Vietnam and the Cold War. I've known dozens of aircrew who were killed either in action or in accidents. Please trust me when I say there almost never any remains. My best friend (Art Bouton) was killed in a B-47 crash that happened less than 50 miles from our base. I was supposed to be on that plane but was replaced at the last second by someone who needed the training more than I did. We never found anything of Art. Empty caskets were normal for Air Force crash victims. We knew that and accepted the fact. #045 had no nose art. The picture I already sent is as good resolution as I have, but I'll send it again (attached).

FROM ANOTHER NEW FRIEND – FRED MEIER'S, American, Veteran, Gentleman – keeps company with all our hero's!

I am pleased to give you what I have ...but can't add much ...I am glad that I kept a log of the missions I flew ...otherwise I meld the missions all together . ...I don't have time at present to give you much ...but wanted to reply asap ... I flew most of my missions using Acft 045 ... It didn't have Shoran so we had to take 816 ...according to my 'diary ' ...Our crew chief on 045 finally go all the engines he wanted ...they were all Fords . I use the number 045 in my codes frequently ,it was lucky for me on all my missions from Feb 51 and on. They were all cold at altitude . I remember the day too well to relate all the details ...my gunner called in to advise 045 was going in . We crash landed at Kimpo ... Fred
Frederick C Meier

Joan,

Just spent an hour talking to my mother - she's wonderful mom! We talked more about my Uncle Jack and the events. She reminded me again - the original reports, within a few weeks of the loss, they were told (my aunt / jacks wife, jacks mother and my mother) that six bodies were found. This coincides with other reports from NK Guerrillas. They named them off, but she doesn't remember, however navigator absolutely, a pilot and commander. Basically she remembers them saying "they went down in the mud flats, six bodies were found and Uncle Jack was missing". These earliest communications were between the Air Force and Eva Horner (Jacks mother) and Norinne Horner (Jacks wife).

Official reports later reduced the count to three found - a surprise to my mother to this day.

In my mind, I cannot accept the image of the crash scene as depicted, the entire site looks decimated and burned up due to fuel, munitions, etc. Moving along this train of thought, even using current reports of only three bodies found at the site - it would have been difficult at best to identify any remains. I was told by an authoritative Air Force veteran of four wars and author, the major percentage of aircraft burials are empty casket. Remains are not found.

With this in mind, its a stretch of the imagination finding the remains as listed in i.e. report, officially three bodies, Guerrillas reporting six bodies, three under the tail section, two inside and one outside "seemed to be" assassinated. If bodies were found, it would make more sense to follow original reports it crashed on the mud flats / water. That would account for any remains as the flames would have extinguished or in the least, scattered and kept the site from total loss. Also, Fred Meier witness and flying in the same formation, reports they went down in water, "I hope they get picked up soon".

This brings the conclusion the plane did go down in the mud flats, if so, tides could have resulted in daily changes of the scene. Carrying off much of the debris and bodies. Perhaps the reason the body count was much higher in the first weeks vs months later during the invasion.

Also in my mind, taking into account the reports "they went down in fireballs", the initial attack and how easily the MiG cannons cut through these planes, shrapnel, fire, smoke, centrifugal force of "tight spiral", all combined - one could assume in the least, many were killed before hitting the ground. Three men bailed and were listed as POW's, six were found at the site, two bodies were seen in the sea but not recovered and it was two weeks before the crash site was found AND finally the deterioration of the crash site in such a short period, most likely due to tidal waters - leaves me concluding one unaccounted for.

I am not saying that ONE unaccounted for is acceptable, any more than the remains of the three POW's from the 045, recorded were never returned. What I am saying is for those loved one's left behind with 60 year old data, consider the source... Some re-constructed, conjecture, convoluted, conflicting, confusing, debriefs of emotionally and physically traumatized soldiers and POW's, leaves more questions than answers.

However ALL with good intentions, one cannot lose sight of the overall events of those fifteen minutes of pure hell and carnage. Anyone that didn't bail in the first few moments, could have been wounded, dead and/or dying and the remaining - fighting like hell to get out of a spinning, fiery, smoke and deadly fumed filled missile heading for the ground. The fact that it was heading towards the sea and other reports implying my Uncle bailing over the sea and crewmen with easier evacuation routes than others being found a the scene, implies i.e. some were wounded too badly to get out OR they were doing their best to get the plane to the sea while others were getting out. Regardless hero's one and all!

These were our men, families, Americans, our armed forces, knowing the outcome, they would have still geared up and gave them hell...

UPDATE 05/08/2010

It is conceivable the 1940 and the 045 positions were not accurately recorded AND reported to our family. The initial report and others said it went down in the mudflats! I've read it dropped out of formation but seemed under control and other reports it said sheared off and went down in a tight spiral. Mac has brought up important information, to be released in his next book, that point to the crash of the 045 into a mountain, including an image. This goes against everything my family has ever heard about the loss. Is it possible the 045 went into the mountain and the 1940 hit the mud flats? Three bombers were shot down that day – fact, one exploded over the Yellow sea, one crashed in the mudflats and the other “reportedly” into the mountain side. I'll wait to see what Mac comes up with, but if I read his response correctly, the last 60 years our family was given the wrong information – in regards to the aircraft crash location. My mother remembers the report as stated above, including names and specific flight assignments of the crew found. I am uncertain how a report could be so detailed IF they were looking at the wrong crash site? We'll wait and see what Mac comes up with! However, As for my Uncle Jack – his fate is sealed in history...

Earl McGill “Mac” author of “Black Tuesday Over Namsi”, has been very helpful and supportive in my efforts - bringing new facts and information as time permits. Folks – BUY HIS BOOKS if you wish to know about the Korean War, POW's, this event and more. His eye for detail, years of research and interviews, will keep you riveted! The hardback version of Black Tuesday Over Namsi will provide even more invaluable information and hours of reading!

Scott, The caption for the mountain crash (if published) will read: 8-141(N)-Wreckage-42-94045: Wreckage reported to be that of 42-94045. (Courtesy of Diego Zampini)

The emphasis is on the word reported. If you have the book you will notice that whenever there is reasonable doubt I use qualifiers. One example: Wherever someone claims to have shot down another aircraft and the claim is not substantiated by actual records (such as are available for the three B-29s actually shot down) I use the word "claimed." I also go to lengths to explain the varying viewpoints. Unfortunately, none of the three survivors on Krumm's crew (045) have been available for interview.

Nevertheless, here is what we know:

Both sides agree that 045 was shot down moments after bombs-away. We have a photo of the actual bomb drop, verbal confirmation from B-29 crew members, and several eye-witness accounts from MiG pilots that confirm this. This means that 045 must, of necessity, plunged to earth near Namsi, where there are mountains.

All three survivors were taken prisoner, indicating that they landed either on land or close to it. Foulks' aircraft, one flight back (Baker Flight), had all but one man taken prisoner. Beissner, probably the last one out, landed in the water, indicating the others also landed either on land or close to it. BTW, Foulks' aircraft, 1940, is my candidate for the one that hit in the mud flats (if, in fact that was a "fresh" crash site)

Finally, the four survivors from Shields' crew (Charlie Flight) all landed in the water and were rescued. #0151 exploded in air and rained down pieces into the water. Charlie flight did not release their bombs on the target, but turned short toward the Yellow Sea..

Yesterday I received a target publication date for both books, sometime in 2011. This has kick-started my other book (titled Jet Age Man), the one I've already received an advance for, which doesn't mean I'm through working on the new hardback edition of Black Tuesday. On the contrary. Yesterday I interviewed Paul Stainbrook, left gunner on Shields' crew, who bailed out over the Yellow Sea. As a consequence, I rewrote some of the material concerning the shootdown of Capt. Thomas Shields. Nothing much was altered but I was able to clarify the sequence of events and the fact that cannon shells struck both wings (a bone of contention until Stainbrook). Thanks for your thoughts, Mac

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another note on misinformation, note 8 bombers listed?

Aerial combat increased in intensity throughout the fall of 1951,

peaking in the biggest air battle of the Korean War on Oct. 23. "Black

Tuesday," as it became known, was the turning point in the air war. The

U.S. bomber armada was attacking the airfields at Samchan, Taechon, Uiju

and Namsi. Over Namsi, it was a "holocaust," wrote Robert F. Futrell in

The U.S. Air Force in Korea.

Eight B-29s of the 307th Bomb Group escorted by 55 F-84Es of the

49th and 136th Fighter-Bomber Groups plus 34 F-86Es from the 4th FIG

flew into a hornet's nest. About 100 MiG-15s engaged the escort while

50 others hit the bombers. Futrell labeled the 20-minute engagement

"one of the most savage and bloody air battles of the Korean War."

When the shooting was over, three bombers were lost, four

crash-landed in South Korea and three had to be scrapped upon reaching

Okinawa. An F-84 was lost, too. Four MiGs went down--three of them

reportedly to B-29 gunners. The war's last daylight bomber raid was

conducted five days later.

B-29 crew casualties for the week, most sustained over Namsi,

totaled 67--55 KIA/MIA and 12 WIA. Among the dead was Capt. Thomas L.

Shields who sacrificed his life in keeping his crippled bomber flying

until his fellow crew members had time to bail out.

MORE COMMUNICATION WITH EARL MCGILL “Mac”

Mac,

I know your busy - but food for thought...

I had another long talk with my MOTHER - (all caps cause she deserves it), sister to Norinne Horner who was wife to John "Jack" Joseph Horner (045) Namsi. Our families were very close, Norinne, Eva Horner (Jacks mother), my mother and grandmother all lived next door and/or blocks apart to each other. My mother was closest to Norinne and Eva through the events following the loss and the years following trying to gather further information. As it goes: Norinne (Navy) and Jack were divorced shortly before he left, they were trying to have children and Jack "seemingly" wanted a career as a pilot more than family. When he left for Korea, they had reconciled and were set to re-marry upon his return. The letter she sent him "agreeing" to remarry was sent two weeks before the loss. It was never returned and she never knew if he got it. Therefor Eva became the NOK and all correspondence was with her. Eva was initially told "Jacks plane went down in the mud flats where the Yalu River meets the sea, six bodies were found but Jack and the others were missing, three had parachuted and had most likely been captured or were killed by NK forces". As time went on, the report dropped to three bodies found and no further information about Jack, other than he was most likely "killed while missing" has ever surfaced. Eva and Norinne tried till their deaths to find further information and as Norinne was Catholic, remained a woman in wait till her death. She always said she was still married in the churches eyes and "he could come walking through that door at any minute"... I think your beyond the Namsi book, but for the record - or in the least what an 88 year old sister in law remembers, this is her truth! I AM NOT QUESTIONING YOU HERE AND NO RESPONSE REQUIRED! In your opinion, the 045 image shows a mountain side crash site, burned almost beyond recognition. Is it conceivable - six remains were reported initially, three remains months later during the invasion, Fred's

statement of landing in water and hoping they get picked up soon - that it was a mud/water impact and tidal waters deteriorated the site in that short period? Basically accounting for the different body count reports as time passed and the image is not that of the 045?

Thanks again for all you've done!

Scott

Scott,

The caption for the mountain crash (if published) will read:

8-141(N)-Wreckage-42-94045: Wreckage reported to be that of 42-94045. (Courtesy of Diego Zampini)

The emphasis is on the word reported. If you have the book you will notice that whenever there is reasonable doubt I use qualifiers. One example: Wherever someone claims to have shot down another aircraft and the claim is not substantiated by actual records (such as are available for the three B-29s actually shot down) I use the word "claimed." I also go to lengths to explain the varying viewpoints. Unfortunately, none of the three survivors on Krumm's crew (045) have been available for interview.

Nevertheless, here is what we know:

Both sides agree that 045 was shot down moments after bombs-away. We have a photo of the actual bomb drop, verbal confirmation from B-29 crew members, and several eye-witness accounts from MiG pilots that confirm this. This means that 045 must, of necessity, plunged to earth near Namsi, where there are mountains.

All three survivors were taken prisoner, indicating that they landed either on land or close to it. Foulks' aircraft, one flight back (Baker Flight), had all but one man taken prisoner. Beissner, probably the last one out, landed in the water, indicating the others also landed either on land or close to it. BTW, Foulks' aircraft, 1940, is my candidate for the one that hit in the mud flats (if, in fact that was a "fresh" crash site)

Finally, the four survivors from Shields' crew (Charlie Flight) all landed in the water and were rescued. #0151 exploded in air and rained down pieces into the water. Charlie flight did not release their bombs on the target, but turned short toward the Yellow Sea..

Yesterday I received a target publication date for both books, sometime in 2011. This has kick-started my other book (titled Jet Age Man), the one I've already received an advance for, which doesn't mean I'm through working on the new hardback edition of Black Tuesday. On the contrary. Yesterday I interviewed Paul Stainbrook, left gunner on Shields' crew, who bailed out over the Yellow Sea. As a consequence, I rewrote some of the material concerning the shootdown of Capt. Thomas Shields. Nothing much was altered but I was able to clarify the sequence of events and the fact that cannon shells struck both wings (a bone of contention until Stainbrook).

Thanks for your thoughts,

Mac

Mac,

Your a gem with four hands, two for book writing, one for pushing your

glasses up and finally, one for e-mail - patient too!

It's inconceivable in my mind, anything could have been gathered from

the mess in that image... My mother said "Navigator, pilot, commander,

gunner, etc". But in reality, the initial report may have been

incorrect, whereby they were looking at the 1940? Giving "names" is the

only point I would have trouble with? It seems unreasonable viewing the

image, positive ID would have been possible - but I'm a mechanic, what

the heck do I know about aircraft!

My strongest argument falls short of your weakest point...

Thanks again Mac, your offering hope and clarity to families of a

forgotten war - in the records, but alive and well in memories.

I'll be in line for your next publication!

Scott

Mac,

QUICK QUESTION: Am I at liberty to post our communication on my website

- its for my family NOT revenue? I'll understand and respect your

wishes!

Regardless, I am pushing your book/s! So far - everyone I've suggested

it to, cannot put it down!

Thanks again,

Scott

Scott,

To answer your question--certainly!

Today, while working on the rewrite I came across information that I'd missed the significance of when I received a "secret" interrogation document last week. The drowned airman was definitely identified as James Vretis--not as "reported," Jack Horner.

I'm still curious where I came up with the "little Jack Horner" memory. I bounced this off of C. J. Christ ( good Kadena friend and fellow copilot--trans. Drinking buddy) a few years back and he validated the memory (there's a lot more to it--please don't ask), but neither one of us could recall the exact circumstance--nor could we probably have recalled it the day after it happened, given our propensities back then. C.J. is the one that told me he "heard" that Horner had tangled and drowned in his parachute, as I mention in the book. We were in another B-29 unit so accurate information was not always available. In the next edition that item will be eliminated because it was Vretis who drowned.

Do you have access to any old records that might show whether or not Jack graduated from aviation cadets in class 50G? (same as CJ & me). Also, we're looking for more photos that can be linked to the Black Tuesday text.

Attached are two images I hope I didn't send before. The first is a MiG gun camera shot that we first believe was 045 but has been proven to be 0151 (Shields). The second is a sample by the artist being sought after to illustrate the hardbound edition of Black Tuesday Over Namsi.

Regards,

Mac

Mac,

I have attached my Uncle Jacks image, this was taken in Pensacola FL, if

you would like a better image (higher quality), let me know, I'll rescan

it. Two Uncle Jacks are in this message, I'll follow John J. Horner

with (045)

As for Uncle Jack's (045) training, Grosse Isle Naval Air Station, MI

and Pensacola, FL come to mind. He started out in the Navy, where he

met and married Norinne Scott/Horner (Navy) and went to the Air Force -

not sure how that came about? You would know more about that than I,

perhaps they are one in the same at that point.

My Uncle Jack Scott - Norinne's brother, has all her belongings from her

estate. I have asked him if he had any further information and/or

images. He responded "hundreds of photo's", but doesn't know where to

start. I'm not sure how many are associated with Jack (045) and

Norinne, but they were stationed together, much of could be?

Jack Scott shipped them to his son in Michigan who is professional

photographer and I have been waiting for copies - well anything really!

I will get in touch with him again and see if he has any documents that

would provide insight or contribute to this effort.

Additionally my mother is doing her best to recollect the events, but

honestly - as I talk to her, I am becoming acutely aware of how facts

can get upside down quickly. As I talk to her, her recounts often will

include information discovered and mentioned in the previous

conversation.

Thanks Mac, I'll keep ya posted and stay on my uncle like P-51 in a

power dive (I heard that my entire life from my father, Robert Anderson,

Army WWII, b1921-d1995).

Scott

Mac,

I forgot to mention, I have the first photo, found it somewhere on the

web, as for the artists sample, it looks great! I'm not an art critic,

but the detail is incredible, fighter, ground, clouds, visible pilot

name and it says quite a bit about the moment. It's even more exciting

to view our "fighter" pulling along side. Question is, the book will be

in portrait mode? This appears great in landscape, how will it look

condensed/paginated? You run out of real estate quickly on a book

cover...

Thanks Mac,

Scott

Scott,

I just found more information in my files that JJ Horner listed as MIA was considered KIA on Feb 1954 . Since they were not found in the wreckage it is assumed they Bailed and encountered the enemy while in N.Korea . It is my personal opinion that the ACFT.045 was hit by AA ( german 88's ) .This was the most accurate field peace weapon of the period . The Russians confiscated the 88's from the Germans . Fred

Judging by his serial # 1911849 he graduated soon after I did ..mine was # 1911500 please ...RSVP

Frederick C Meier , Major USAF Retired